>> charlie: welcome to our program. tonight we continue our conversations about afghanistan with congress woman barbara lee. >> i had my resolution but i have support. no more funding for compat operationment the only funding that we're going to provide will be to protect our troops and contractors and to bring them home. enough is enough. you know, the generals are going to tell us it's going good, we need more money more troops or they're going to say it's going bad, we need more money more troops. >> charlie: we take a look at march madness with jay bilas of espn. >> i think kansas has the best path and i think they are playing the best right now

heading into the tournament. they're very efficient offensively and they're very very good defensessively and they're continuing to get better at this time of year which is unusual and it's certainly the nice thing when you're number one seed and continuing to improve. >> charlie: with we conclude with the renown stock picker barton biggs who has written a novel about wall street. >> you wake up in the middle of the night about the novel you're writing and you get to many where you live with the principal character. not just the principal character, other characters. and then of course i was really writing it during the financial collapse, and so i was really getting new material all the time about the human tragedies that were occurring. >> charlie: lee, bilas, biggs when we continue.

but this isn't just a hollywood storyline. it's happening every day, all across america. every time a storefront opens. or the midnight oil is burned. or when someone chases a dream, not just a dollar. they are small business owners. so if you wanna root for a real hero, support small business. shop small. additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose.

>> charlie: barbara lee is here, she's a representative from california's 9th congressional district. a democrat, lee is known to be a progressive voice in congress. some of the issues she's focused on are economic inequity, poverty and hiv aids. she's a vocal credit of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. her memoir's now in paperback called renegade for peace and justice, a memoir political and personal courage. i'm pleased to have her here on this program for the first time. welcome. >> so happy to be here. >> charlie: it's my pleasure. let me just talk about your life. >> of course i write about this in my book in terms of being born in el paso, texas and my mother was not in the allowed in the hospital she needed a c-section because she was black think not going to admit her. my grandmother looked white, you know, her mother has been raped by the head of the household where she worked in louisiana

and he was an irish men. out of this rape came two daughters and that's my grandmother. so my grandmother looked white and she came up to the hospital and said this is my daughter you're going to let her in. finally they admitted her but they didn't do anything except left her up on as they say a gurney, she says. and nothing happened. so finally it was two late for a c section and my grandmother was raising cane and finally the doctors attended to her. but it was actually too late for a c section. they rushed her into the emergency room and didn't quite know what to do and ended up delivering me using forceps and i had a mark over my eyes for many years until very recently. the point is i almost didn't major it into this world because my mother was black. she almost didn't make it through the delivery because she was black. she nearly died. so i came into this world just fighting to survive, fighting to breathe, fighting to live. i heard this story as a young

child, and early on, i said how could they do that to my mother. not understanding racism then, how could they do that. so this was the beginning of my fight for peace and justice. >> charlie: then you write about this, you were written about this, you were battered. >> like so many women ended up in a situation with a man, and i was a victim of domestic violence. it was horrible. then i began to master what battered women syndrome is and it's so devastating and it's devastating both to the batterer and the battered. when i was in the california legislature, i actually worked and i talked about this. this book was really hard to write charlie because i talked about and wrote about all of the legislation that i wrote that related to abuse, battered women syndrome as well as i carried the california violence against women act. so when i was writing this book, they want to know, well, what led to that and i thought this

is the right thing to do but i had to write about my experience. i guess it's about two years being a victim of domestic violence. it was horrible and i tell you one thin, the power of women, women's issues are so important in terms of my work as an elected official or a member of congress. >> charlie: you've been an elected official. you were on the side of the plaque panthers. >> when i was a student in college in the early 70 i was, a black student and president. i consciously did not want to get involved in politics because i didn't think the two-party system was relative. i was a young single mutter on public assistance. there were many organizations and one was the black panther party and i worked on the survival program. the ten point program. i bagged groceries and help

coordinate fund raisers for the community school. i worked at the fund raising coordinator when he ran for mayor the first african american thrsm i was really in community work and voter registration. the whole nine yards and that was during the time when i met sherry. >> charlie: she was a mentor. you went to capitol hill. >> i was an intern at undergraduate -- my first year of graduate school at the university of california berkley and the second year. >> charlie: then went back and ran for the state legislature. >> i went back and actually finished grad school, started community mental health center, raised enough money to be able to hire staff, then i came back to work for ron from 1975 until about 86. and later, i set up my own business and actually i wanted to create jobs for people. and so i set up a company and we

had almost 400, 500 employees at one point. and that was the late 80's, and i ran for the california legislature in 1990. >> charlie: and then moved up to the state senate. >> state senate, assembly first in the senate and then when ron retired, ran for his seat that was in 98. >> charlie: how did you see your mission in congress? >> my mission, charlie has always been the same, whether in justices where you see that the government needs to be that support mechanism, when you see the common good is not being achieved, then you have to work and fight to make it right. so fortunately, i'm privileged that my great constituency has elected me since 98 so i'm able to work on issues of poverty, poverty elimination, of course the war, i'm working on education issues, i'm on the appropriate informations committee and much much of what i duce funding priorities. >> charlie: if you work for the house you won't be on the

appropriations committee. >> no more earmarked or directed funding because i have to just say when congress directs funding, this is very controversial. but when we're able to identify a project in our districts, non-profit that are creating jobs and providing services, that's a big deal ask these non-profits can leverage millions of dollars and to have that cut out i'm very disappointed. that's part of the work of the an appropriator and of course we have to also establish our funding priorities of our government. a budget is a moral document, with a decide what we're going to fund and how we're going to. >> charlie: you've been in leadership of the progressive caucus. how do you define yourself politically. >> i'm a progressive. when i registered to vote in the early 70's, i wasn't quite sure if i wanted to be a democrat or not. so i'm a progressive democrat and i believe my job is to make

our democratic party more democratic because certainly i've seen over the years that, you know, our work for inclusion, our fight for justice needs a lot of work for our party. we elected a great first african american president, president obama who is doing a phenomenal job. so i think people like myself have moved the party in the correct direction so that that could happen. so i'm a progressive democrat. >> charlie: you think he's done a phenomenal job but you're unhappy with some of the thing he's done. you're unhappy with the bush tax cut extension. >> i did not support that. i did not think that was the correct way to move forward. charlie we have a deficit now that was created by these huge tax cuts for the wealthy and by two wars that should not have been fought. we did not need to give more tax cuts to the wealthy, we did not need to extend the estate tax the way we did. i think that's just going to big

us deeper into the hole. i believe there are 90 to a hundred democrats who believe the same way and could not support that. >> charlie: the president has also mentioned perhaps reducing corporate tax. are you in favor of that? >> we should do that because she's got to be some sense of fairness on our tax system when you look at the corporations and the type of loopholes and they get credit and deductions to go offshore, they teak jobs away from american workers and go offshore and yet they get credit for that. come on, that's not the way. >> charlie: so you're in favor of reducing from 35 down to say 25. >> 25 or lower. >> charlie: or lower. >> even or. >> charlie: but rules druggions drug -- deductions they're now getting. >> especially going offshore. any company that goes offshore and lays off american workers

and then benefits from it by going offshore, i don't think they should get any type of tax deduction. >> charlie: will you talk of the deficit commission and their recommendations from cochairman simpson. >> i awe freed with a member of the communication congress woman jan she came up with a good alternative. some of those suggestions which i believe one was looking at the mortgage interest rate, addressing that. well you know middle income individuals, that's maybe all they have in terms of any kind of ability to accumulate any type of wealth to start a business and send their kids to school. so i didn't agree with that. i'm glad they came up with a suggestion that we begin to look at defense because before that, democrats or republicans will talk about this. >> charlie: gates talked about cutting defense. >> i was very pleased to hear him say that because we need to have a secretary of defense talk

about waste, fraud and abuse and defense. the fact that cold war air weapons systems are continuing to be built. we're in the time now of asymmetrical warfare, we need to have a new military that's appropriate for the world world in which we live and much of that budget goes for the cold war era which we're not in. >> charlie: what was your toughest vote. >> my toughest vote was right after the horrific tragedy of 9/11. >> charlie: you were the only person to oppose. >> yes, and it was very difficult. but when you look at that resolution charlie and you read it, it was a blank check. it said the president is authorized to use force against any nation organization individual connected to 9/11. that was a broad blank check. that said the basis for not only afghanistan. we didn't even know afghanistan at the moment of that vote but

also iraq and anywhere else. i'm trying to repeal that authorization. this has been the longest war in american history, ten years. i knew then it was going to create more anger and more hostility and that's not the way we should a dress global most and security. >> charlie: as you know when then state senator barack obama from illinois came out against the war in iraq and the invasion of iraq, he made a clear point saying i want everybody to know i'm not against all wars, i believe they're just wars. and you say the same thing. >> there are just wars but i don't believe that what we have done with regard to afghanistan is what i would categorize as a just war. >> charlie: even if it was only in response to al-qaeda, you don't think -- >> but al-qaeda -- >> charlie: that was located and originated from afghanistan. >> but we'd have to declare war then charlie. the congress would have to declare war and we would have to understand exactly what we were doing, going after al-qaeda and

responding appropriately. i don't believe we need to give any president the authority to use force or to go to war anywhere, ever. i think that's our responsibility and we did not do that, and here we are. >> charlie: but on this situation, you know, you talked to admiration for the president. >> i do. >> charlie: you're in a very different place from the president on this because he says almost compared to iraq which is sort of the bad war he believes that afghanistan is necessary. >> he said that during the campaign and i disagreed with him on that. every time i hear it i flinch. we need to get out by the deadline that he established. >> charlie: he's recently announced they will begin in a small way to leave some people small amount of people i awe many zoom in july of this year. >> yes, but i don't agree with

that. >> charlie: you think they should all leave. they should all leave. i'm building support for democratic support and say no more funding for combat operation. the only funding is to proar tech our troops and contractors and to bring them home. enough is enough. you know, the generals are together to tell us it's going good, we need more money, more troops or they're going to say it's going bad, we need more money, more troops. either way we should never get on. >> charlie: should we listen to the generals. he had the generals and series of civilian advisors making the decisions about afghanistan. it wasn't just the generals and he quizzed them over that long period to find out and make up his own mind as the how to go forward. >> yes. but in many ways, and i have to

say this, i see much of the previous administration's policy in play. i don't believe that this administration has completely shifted direction in afghanistan and i'm going to say this, even the administration has said that there are very few members of any of al-qaeda in a began stan. >> charlie: cia said that in testimony before congress. >> but i mean al-qaeda -- >> charlie: we're this because they worry if in fact the taliban comes back they'll offer safe haven and al-qaeda will come back. >> they live in afghanistan. thee will be there. if we don't figure out a way to move forward in some type of arrangement that's going to help stabilize the country and ensure that we at least support some form of economic development in afghanistan, i don't believe it's a win-win for us at all and i think the quicker we realize that the better shape we'll be in. in terms of national security because the longer we're there the more anger is created.

the people are going to talk about and the region is going to be very volatile and you don't want to see more anger and hostility towards the united states. >> charlie: clearly that's true but there's reason to believe some of that's changed as well and the president is grasping with that now what to do with libya and believing if he identifies with some of forces, bringing about change in the middle east that it was a new definition with respect to the middle east. i knew you think that but let me come back to a began stan. because of this you are very very concerned across the board. there's no group that has been more hostile to women's issues than the taliban. >> that's right. >> -- >> charlie: i would think you want to do everything you can on behalf of the women. >> i do one to do everything i can i am but the taliban is going to be there that's their country. we have to work with women and

make sure our foreign aid and the work we do here in the united states support women's movement and away from the taliban. i want to support the women of afghanistan and i don't want to see any back sliding. but the women will tell you now the security concerns are enormous in afghanistan and the presence of the united states -- >> charlie: they're better off now than they were when the taliban was in power. >> if we stay there another 10, 15, 20 years, the cost, first of all i think we can do this and i think with a can do it -- >> charlie: do what. >> help the women of afghanistan help stabilize afghanistan and make sure that our troops come home and aren't at risk of being shot and killed. and i think our defense department knows how to do this but i think, you have to take out u.s. troops first before we can do anything. regional stability is extremely important and you have to bring in the region and talk about how you move forward. but that means our troops have

to get out. and the cost, in addition the human costs, you look at the dollars, the trailians trailia- trillions of dollars and as longs war going on that isn't going to happen. >> charlie: you want legislation to cut off funding -- >> cut off funding for future operations in a began stan. i want funding there to protect the troops. anything they need, they performed well. they should be reported so whatever it takes to protect and support the troops we need to fund as well as the contractors. but we need to send this funding in and we need to do that and use the funding whatever we appropriate to begin withdrawing and we need to do that quickly. not in 2011 but we need to begin

a massive drop down. >> charlie: what do you think of general gates. >> he's been very bold and he's made some statements and tried to help move the direction of our military policy in a new way. and you know, he's going to retire. you know, i think his retirement is going to give us a chance really to look at shifting gears. but i also think, you know, he helps stabilize this administration and i think he's been, you know, a good secretary. >> charlie: you have raised questions as to whether we should be part of a no-fly zone over libya. what are your concerns there or are you sort of trying to restrict the president from doing that if he thinks it's in the national interest. >> whatever takes place he should come to congress especially contemplating a no play zone. >> charlie: really. >> heavens yes. and i think secretary gates

again said we have to consider the implications of war. >> charlie: can you imagine the circumstance in which you would want on behalf of the sort of the people who are in fact protesting with all the kinds of principles that you believe in, freedom, democracy, better economic benefits that was spread throughout the populous. all those things that have been the passion of your life. why shouldn't we help those people. >> well we should help them but i think a no-fly zone and going to war could happen would create the opposite effect. this movement that's taking place in libya and throughout the middle east, it's a grass roots movement. it's a movement of people. the united states cannot be seeing, i don't believe, as being heavy handed. >> charlie: the region says suppose there is the lid from the region and they say please nato, united nations, united states, come to our aid because

we may lose this thing because of the superior air power of colonel qaddafi. >> he does have superior air power to the rebels and other people. i think you're going to make matters worse, this country would make matters worse, nato would make matters worse if we begin some air strikes and some military maneuvers. that could happen. that could be the outcome of that and so i shudder to though what the reaction would be in the region and even in libya, once that occurs. >> charlie: can you man a place where you'd like to see, you'd think it will be in our national interest to see employment of american forces over seas. >> in the war? >> charlie: war or otherwise. >> my dad was 25 military so i was raised -- >> charlie: i know you were.

but in terms of is there a philosophy behind when you want to see american forces employed in harm's way. >> i think our forces are always in harm's way and i think that the nature and the character of the military has to change with the 21st century. there's so many issues, development issues, peacekeeping, i think we've done, our troops have done remarkably well in peacekeeping efforts and in trying to keep problems and conflict from arising. and you know, there could be situations where we have to use military force but i think the way the world is now, with nuclear weapons pointed in all directions, thank god our president, you know, is supporter of non-proliferation, you know, but i think it's important to recognize we live in a very dangerous world and we do not want our troops in harm's way with every conflict that

emerges but i think our troops are doing a fine job now but they need to really i think the defense department needs to really begin to redefine what our mission is in the world as the world in which we live in. >> charlie: and which we have serious economic issues including jobs that you referred to. >> yes. here at home when you look at the unemployment rate, look at the unemployment rate in the black and latino community. i mean nationally it's still too high. 15.3% in the african american and that's just what, the county? that's a shame and disgrace. when you look at the investment of funding in many low income communities when you look at poverty rates increasing, when you look at childhood poverty and when you look at the lack of thank god we have a health care reform a law now that the republicans are trying to get rid of, people still need health insurance. people have lost their homes.

communities were targeted pie these scam artists especially in these communities. there are many pressing needs here, young people, new jobs. try to get summer outjob parents youth plan, couldn't get it done. >> charlie: there are more women in the chinese government than there are in the american house of representatives. what's happening, why aren't we seeing more women like barbara lee in the congress and senate. >> i've thought about that a lot and i'm going to tell you i think a lot of it has to do wih money. this system of financing campaigns is horrendous. we need member finances of campaign. can you imagine raising two, three, $4 million for a congressional seat. women are coming from a place in, not a parity or equity at this point, same with the people of color. until we have a financing system, a campaign financing

system that's fair and that allows for the participation, women i think we're going to see these big gaps. so the influence of money and politics is very shame if, i think. i detest it. i think that has a lot to do with women. i've talked to a lot of women to encourage. you don't have to dial for dollars ten hours a week, raise money, do this. we have a job to do, we're trying to save the world. to have to raise money like that i think is a deterrent for a lot of women. >> charlie: thank you for coming. >> glad to be with you. >> charlie: great to be with you. congress woman barbara lee. >> charlie: the ncaa basketball tournament begins this week in 16 cities across the country. the 68 team fill will culminate with the champion in april 4th in houston. ohio state, pittsburgh, do you

recollect. joining me is a journalist for espn. glad to have you back. >> charlie, thank you. >> charlie: you're familiar with -- >> i think those are good choices for the number one seed. i think you could have put notre dame as number one seed and even sand aye go state 3-s 2-2. their only losses on the season were to pyu twice when they were ranked in the top ten and committeely, a complete tame. they had brandon davies before his suspension. you could make a case for notre dame or san diego state but the four the committee settled upon were very good choices because of one how good they are. i think it should go to the four best teams but the body of work they put together, the number of quality teams that each one of those teams beat. >> charlie: can you make a judgment as to whether this is an above arrange year or an extraordinary year or how would you assess it? >> i think you can make a judgment. and if you recall last year, i

felt it was a limb -- a littlef down year. there weren't great teams. we talked about this on your show, i felt it was a volatile tournament where a lot of the top seeds might get upset. this year it's going to be more volatile. i think charlie this might be the weak i was, if you look at the end of the field and we've added three times and gone from 65 to 68. but there are more losses attributed to that large teams than any field we've ever had. we've got 13 teams that have 11 or more losses. we've got five teams that have 14 losses each. in perspective, when the tournament expanded the 64 teams up until last year 2010, we had a grand total of six teams that were invited as at large teams over that entire period. we've got five this year that have 1 4 losses.

we've got some weaker teams. it might make for a more exciting and unpredictable tournament. >> charlie: but someone suggested to me that you think there are not enough basketball people on the selection committee. >> yes and that sounds horribly snobbish. i don't mean it to sound that way. what i'm really saying is i think anybody could make a judge as to who the four number one seeds are. i don't think that's a difficult decision to make. the hard decisions are who are the last team that get into the field. who are teams number 36, 37, 38 and 39, among the at larges, after the automatic qualifiers, the females that win this conference tournaments after they're factored in. the reason i say that, the committee is made up of ncaa administrators either a conference commissioner or a school's athletic director. this year of those ten people, they of them have basketball experiencement one is stan morrison, the former great coach

at usc, and i think that basketball experience is invaluable, committee members over the years have said that before. guys like dave gaffate, having him on the committee or carol williams or cf newton are invaluable because of their basketball experience. if that's invaluable to have one or two people like that, why not have ten. we've got a good process now, it would make it even better. >> charlie: your final four picks are syracuse and connecticut, kansas and pittsburgh. no do you recollect -- >> these part of picking number one seeds. i saw that when i saw a clear path for the number one seed and all four wound up making it. first time in basketball history that's happened since they started ceding. some of these teams will be beat. duke has the toughest row.

they had the easiest path, nobody has an easy path, but this yearhey have the hardest. in a second ground game assuming duke gets by hampton. michigan plays a different style. they play one three one sunny, they play more of a princeton awe fix. a couple years ago they beat duke up at michigan right before the christmas holiday. they have to play texas in the sweet 16. texas was misseason. texas was more of ear two seed quality as seeded as a four and potentially duke in the elite eight if they were to get past that juggernaut, they could wind up playing san diego state the two seed which we talked about is 32-2 and an older team big and strong or they could play

connecticut which you saw connecticut and new york won five gammons in five days against some of stiff es competition. >> charlie: does that he mean that's the biggest conference and best conference in college basketball. >> it's the best because it's the deepest. part of the reason the bigger east got a record 11 teams into the field is because it's very strong. it may not be as strong as it was two years ago but it's very very strong and also i think some of the conferences around the country this year took a little bit of a step back. the pack ten is not as good as we have come to expect over the years. the atlanta coast conference although good was not to the standard of excellence we've come to expect of that league. the big ten did not perform at a level we expected and the southeastern conference was a little bit of a step down. so the big east was the beneficiary of that getting 11 teams in. that doesn't mean all those 11 teams are going to advance. it wouldn't shock me if the big east only had one team in the final four or if they all got

shut out by the elite eight. that's the kind of year we're having in college basketball. >> charlie: tim is some kind of player. >> he is some kind of player. do you know what it's refreshing. he's such a great kid. he works so hard. he's built like a defensive back in informant ball -- football. he's got tremendous speed he's a junior and playing with freshmen and soft more. he's taking those young kids on thinks back. i don't think anybody's performed from a higher level from the start of the season until now. he was the mvp out of the maui invitational and he performed extraordinarily well through the middle of season. in the conference tournament nobody played better than he did. he set a record for points scored in the big east tournament. they're in the west region. i think the two best players in the west region are ken dull walk he were and nolen smith of duke both are in the top three for best player of years. >> charlie: and no one is from the beginning. >> he has and it's been a year that's had a lot of i don't want

to i is a chaos but a lot of change for him. if you'll have all, duke had the best freshman point god and the best point guard period in the country, a young man named irving. pate games he was averaging 17 points and leading the team this scoring and assists. steals. he was magnificent. duke was 8-0 and he had just come off a 30 plus point game against michigan state and then he injured his toe against butler. i actually was doing that game up in the meadowlands. >> charlie: i saw it. >> it looked when irving went down that it looked like a cramp. it didn't look to me that a toe injury would set a man out for the season. he's rehabbed and now able to do drills. he's out on the court doing drills. now whether that means he will be able to play in the ncaa tournament i have no idea. my sense is no he won't be able

to play. that changed nolen smith's role. he went from a shooting guard and concentrating primarily a scoring having to take over a leadership role with the ball again. he's handled it seemlessly. he's the worse player ever to lead the league in scoring and assists and did that. what i would consider under duress. he showed a lot of fortitude and mental toughness throughout the year. >> charlie: do you pa zoom that irving will, if he doesn't come back, he doesn't play at all, even if they reach the final eight, that he will, he'll go pro, he will not stay for another year? >> the short answer's i don't know, charlie. i think what the one factor that could keep him in school would be the nba lockout. just like the nfl going through a labor issue. so if the owners decide they're going to lock the players out in their collective bargaining agreement, you could see some kids say i don't know if i want to go right now when things are

in flux. but irving, absent the labor issues we're discussing is a top three pick. and when you're going to be picked that high, my experience is that the kids are going to go. and so you know, he's done from all accounts done well in school and he's been, the thing that's impressed me most about him, he's a terrific player. very nice kid. usually when a kid gets hurt and out for the season he retreats, sits there tries not to get noticed. that young man has been demonstrative, he's been a member of the tam that's out front helping his team mates, very enthusiastic. that's unusual. you don't see that very often and i think it speaks very well not only of his team mates but of him as a young man. >> charlie: it also said a lot about him and his coach. >> that's true too. i think the coach has a very good feel for that kind of thing. but i think the kid deserves a lot of credited too because i've been through that a little bit. i missed sex -- six games my sr

year. you had to step outside yourself a little bit making sure it wasn't about you. that takes a lot on the part of the kid. i was 21 years old and did it for sick games and it was hard. he's done it for a whole year at age 18 and has handled it with maturity. >> charlie: what do you think of harrison barns. >> i think he's the real thing. i thought harrison barns was first team throughout the season. people were saying he never played in a college game, it's too much pressure, it's not fair what you did to him voting him all america preseason. i thought it was fair everything he's that talented and i think he's shown that. talk about maturity, he's another kid extraordinarily mature. a smart kid, you'll remember this from your connection with

duke, he's an extraordinary young man and terrific player. he's a big time player and just starting to come into his own not just as a really good player but a star. had 40 points against clemson. 40 points as a freshman, 40 points in high school is hard to fathom, 40 points as a fectorman in college you just don't see that very often. >> charlie: it's a record is it not. >> it is a freshman record. north carolina has had older players i think charlie scott scored over 40, lengthy, -- lenny. >> charlie: tell me about berdet. >> berdet is not quite he doesn't have quite the point guard skills that mark price had but he can get his own shot, he's big and strong. he's a really nice kid but a killer out on the court.

built like a football player like a line backer and can shoot from anywhere on the floor, creates his own space. when he was younger eats got a brother that kinds of pushed him to be a better player and his brother used to set up really hard drills for him to do so he would make him dribble in their church through these hallways. and he would leap out and have people lay out at him behind these doors to get him used to, to having to dribble under duress. and then he used to take him to a local prison to play pick up game with the inmates. and that's a kid who really wants to get better. you play behind bars. he's a tremendous scorer and he's the only player in my judgment in the ncaa tournament that can get you 50 in a given game. and even though they're down a man, i would not put it past them to advance to the second weekends. i think that's going to be it, i don't think it's going to get past the second weekend. >> charlie: what if they're not down by that particular man they're down by. >> i think they would be capable

of going to the elite eight. i hesitate to sate final -- sal power. they're very good. not being able to score and defend in the most with him in there really limits them. people talk about guards all the time in the ncaa tournament charlie. it's like having a quarterback in football. i'm a basketball guy but my sips in football you can't have a good quarterback if you can't block him. you can have great guard played if you don't have big guys to rebound and defend in the posts those guys are only so effective. you need a college team to win at the highest level. >> charlie: you say syracuse, connecticut, kansas and pivotsberg and you're predicting kansas. >> just like last year. they wound up losing to northern iowa in the second round. if you recall last year we had identified all those mid majors

but boy watch out for cornell or northern iowa. this year we don't have the say kind of power among the smaller conference teamedz we had -- team weeds last year. oakland can give texas a hard time and open up that bracket in the west but not quite as many as we had. i think kansas and ohio are the best. they are playing the best right now heading into the tournament. they're efficient offensively and they're very very good defensively and i think they're continuing to get better at this time of year because it's unlearn and certainly a nice things when you're the number one seed and continuing to improve. >> charlie: i'll watch with great interest. thank you jay. >> thank you charlie, great being with you. >> charlie: jay bilas espn, lawyers in north carolina. back in a moment. stay with us. barton biggs is here co-funder

of a billion dollar hedge fund. before that he was the chief global strategist of morgan stanley. he graduate created from yale with a degree in creative writing. his latest book is a novel called a hedge fund tale of reach and grasp or what's a heaven fore. i'm pleased to have barton biggs back at this table. welcome. >> thank you charlie. >> charlie: how many novels have you written. >> so zero, that's the first one. >> charlie: what made you think you could write a novel. >> anybody that ever did greative writing in college, your as operation is to write a novel. so i finally cranked one out. >> charlie: had been you thinking about this ever since you were at yale. >> no, no. this is strictly a current store of a modern day icarus that awe touches wings with wax and flies too close to the sun and falls

head long back through. >> charlie: what brought this book. >> no one is going to feel sorry for fallen hedge fund managers or fallen banker after what's happened in the last five years. nevertheless all of us that lived through it knew and experienced a lot of people that were human tragedies and who did fly too close to the sun and were destroyed by the crash. >> charlie: but you also have said that you could tell stories in here and approach truth in here which you could not do if you write non-fiction because a lot of your friends would hate you. >> that's true, that's true. >> charlie: so tell me who is joe? >> theodore drieser wrote a novel back in the early 20th sentra called an american tragedy which was the great sort of novel of that time about an

american tragedy. and i had the aspiration to write a tragedy about this time and so joe is, joe is all of us. joe is, and there are plenty of hedge fund managers that have risen from rags to riches and have been destroyed by this. >> charlie: joe's not a guy that went to the best ivy league schools. >> no. a lot of the really good hedge funds managers didn't go to the best ivy leagues schools. they have an intuitive intensity and they had a neal for markets. in the case of joe and the other character in this book nicky ad they worked together that worked very well. >> charlie: you created relationships for him. >> yes.

>> charlie: who is emily. >> emily is the love of his life. >> charlie: and the daughter of. >> someone that runs an investment banking company. i worked that morgan stan me for 30 years and there's a certain amount of morgan stanley investment management in the book. >> charlie: how much, what did you think makes a great money manager? >> well i think what makes a great money manager is tremendous intensity because there's so many other smart people working so hard you have to have someone that is really intense and determined to beat the market. and and to beat other people. and you have to have someone. the other characteristic that helps is luck because the timing of when you start a hedge fund

and how you do in the first six months or a year makes a pre amount of difference. >> charlie: when have you been most wrong, you. >> i was really most wrong about the day that how bad 2008 was going to be but fortunately i was most right about stocks being very cheap in march 2009. >> charlie: 2009 was a great year for you. >> yes. -- >> charlie: where were you in 87. >> i was at morgan stanley. >> charlie: i he knew that but did you see the crash coming. >> no. i don't think anybody saw the crash coming. the crash was a black swan event that came out of no where. >> charlie: what did it do for you? do you remember the day? >> of course i remember the day. that was really truly a

terrifying day because because in 2008 and the first part of 2009, the main and agony was spread over times and the market just fell and eroded and slipped away. but in 1987, the market collapsed and out of the blue on a tuesday afternoon. i mean for no reason. >> charlie: you had no idea what was going to happen the next day. >> yes. i mean that was much carrier. that was a true manic and when how the of the 19th century. >> you say this is a business and investment book, masquerading as a fable. >> right. >> charlie: and the fable is? >> the fable is, what we were talking about earlier, just the original idea of the human condition, this is this tendency that icarus that you want to have wings and you want to fly

and you want to be the best. >> charlie: what's wrong with that. >> nothing's wrong with it as long as you are, as you're able to stip away and not fly too close to the sun. and some of the great hedge fund managers like stan drugmiller have stepped away here. >> charlie: stan worked with george and he had the do cane fund and he recently gave it up. >> yes. >> charlie: why did he give it up. >> because he had a lot of money, a billion dollars and he didn't want to deal with clients harassing him about the market on a day-to-day basis and he wanted to play more golf. >> charlie: that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. when you went to paul street, having a degree from yale, i

guess you studied under robert pen war, did you. >> i did. >> charlie: did you think i'm going to go make a bunch of money and then go do what i really want to do? >> no. i got in yale and went into the marine corps for they years and so my family had been involved in the investment business so i went to business school and went to wall street. but on wall street as a strategist, i wrote some investment advice masquerading as fiction. so i was never writing. >> tell me about creating your characters. how did you do this. >> well, i think you have to, you have to sort of picture a real person as your, when you create a character. >> charlie: so he looks like something. >> so he looks like something.

>> charlie: talks like something. >> and you haven't an idea of how that real person would react to stress, to trauma and to happiness and so on. >> charlie: did you hear his voice in your head. >> yes, definitely. >> charlie: was there a voice you heard from someone else or a composite voice. >> it was a little bit of both but i mean you know, you wake up in the middle of the night and start thinking about the novel you're writing and you get so you almost live with the principal character. not just a principal character, other characters. and then of course i was really writing it during the financial collapse, and so i was really getting new material all the time about the human tragedies that were occurring, not only just in investment firms but in

the found i live in, , greenwich which was the hedge fund capital in the world where it was 2 and 20. >> charlie: 2% of the principal and took 20% of the profit. >> yes. >> charlie: i thought that was on the low side. people up in greenwich going for three and 50, right. >> yes, exactly. >> charlie: what do you make about the inside trading scandal. >> i think it's a disgrace and it's a tragedy for all of us in the business that people and the public are to a certain extent are losing faith in the fairness of the market. and this flash trading and the flash crash we had. those are really bad things, really bad things. >> and both, and the enforcement

agencies of the government failed us in 2008? >> yes. >> charlie: the rating companies failed us in 2008. >> the whole system failed us, yes. >> charlie: and are you admiring of the work done by paulson and bernanke and geithner and geithner and paulson and summers. >> yes, i'm a big fan of bernanke and a big fan of geithner. in the eye of the storm they did right thing. i just hope the government doesn't back off now. this whole thing with debit cards is a sign that maybe not the government but really congress, is congress going to allow the banking hobbyists to

keep charging high percentage on the credit cards. >> charlie: this is the lobbying done by wall street against the consumer agency. >> yes. >> charlie: protection agency. >> make no mistrake, the isn't ec and i think they're doing the right thing but they are playing very very tough and all it takes for the sec to appear to be about to charge a hedge fund with insider trading or illegal activities and that hedge fund is out of business because the clientele is so nervous after what happened with madoff and the minute they hear of a suit being filed or even the fbi rating somebody's offices to get documents, the withdrawals pour in and they're out of business. >> would you have any idea about

nato? >> actually, like you, i did, yes. i thought of the, it was too good to be true and therefore it couldn't be true. it's a hard things and actually the system of course the system is working there in that the people that some of the people that made money from madoff and got the money out are having to regurgitate that money back to people that lost money but that -- >> charlie: make all those people whole again. >> also that makes the current investors and a h thve d at's under any kind of suspicion incredibly nervous. >> charlie: barton biggs. >> thank you charlie for having me.

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